EpSy

Points on the end of the match

75 posts in this topic

I didn't say less xp for escaping on your own, you'd get a bonus based on how MANY players escaped, not how many escaped with you.  Everyone should earn more xp if more players survive, except for Jason.

 

And if this were real life, and the people being murdered were family members, best friends, girlfriends/boyfriends of yours?  You'd just run off and let them get butchered?  If so, you're an awful person.

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If I was being chased around by an undead jason-type murderer with superpowers, I would definitely not put anyone's life before mine if it meant decreasing my chances for survival, unless that person were some sort of close family member. But any friend of mine and especially someone who I know primarily as a coworker at a camp counseling gig - they are going to be left to die. With little emphasis on helping others escape, it allows for some hilarious scenarios to unfold in the game that ultimately make it more fun.

 

I think a lot of times online multiplayer games that try to eliminate all trolling possibilities end up sucking some of the greatest moments out of the game. Take for example the PK system in Diablo 2 and its nonexistence in Diablo 3. The PK system allowed for all kinds of trolling that was annoying at times but it was controlled so it didn't get totally out of hand, and it also made for some of the most fun memories I have of playing Diablo 2. I feel like selfish play and accidental gunshot wounds offer similar fun moments for F13.

 

I do think someone made an interesting point about how Tommy Jarvis is more of a selfless kind of character whose purpose is to stop Jason and save other people's lives. When you are resurrected as Tommy, you should be receiving points or a penalty based on how you did as your original character, then when you are playing as Tommy you should only be rewarded if you are helping other people or defeating Jason.

This way you have both play styles.

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So what you're saying is that instead of 1v7, you want 1v1v1v1v1v1v1v1?

That's exactly what the game already is, and that's been the goal since the beginning--"In Camp Crystal Lake, it only matters if you survive." That being said, I'm sure the devs have no plans to encourage players to work together.

 

I'm glad they decided not to reward altruism, because when there's no incentive to helping other players, it all comes down to practicality and morality. You either work together because it'll help you escape faster and maybe because you're playing with your friends and you actually want to escape together. Or if you have no friends to play with and/or you just want to go it alone, there's nothing to stop you from doing that.

 

If there was a reward system for helping others escape, then it would ruin the point of working alone. Players would feel pressured into working with others, even if they don't want to. I mean, if you could get more points by helping people, then why wouldn't you do it? It shouldn't be that way. One playstyle shouldn't be more desirable than another just because it equals a better score. You should feel comfortable playing however you want.

 

Also, personally, I disagree with the stance that if you're willing to leave your teammate in a video game to die that it translates to "you'd be willing to leave your close friends and family to die in real life." Those are two totally different, incomparable situations.

Risinggrave likes this

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I don't think either penalizing the points for escaping alone, that's not good, you should get normal points if you escape alone or with teammates. I think devs knows the best, like they said: "It only matters that YOU survive..." so that's what i like, i would ike to screw someone over if he is not close to the car and i have keys so i will just leave without him/them...And teamwork is optional for "quicker" escape (maybe) but i like the thinking of devs.

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Again, have you literally never seen the films? There's effectively zero instances in which a character just scampers off and leaves their friend to die a hideous death. Often, they try to save them and end up getting killed themselves for their trouble. This being a game based on those films, it stands to reason that you'd be encouraged to help other players escape via increased risk with an increased reward. No one is saying you CAN'T just run off and be a selfish jerk, we're just saying it logically follows the films to encourage players to work together to escape. I'm not sure why you're so against encouraging teamwork.

If we want film accuracy then Tommy Jarvis can only spawn against a Part 6 Jason.

 

I'm against encouraging teamwork because this isn't a goddamn DOTA. Teamwork in this game is its own reward and has its own trade off. Why do we need to encourage it further?

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Because it'd be a more exciting match if instead of just saying "Well car's fixed I'm out screw all of you" you had to think "Well I could leave, but if I can help save one of them, I'll get more xp" and decide if the risk vs reward is worth it or not.  There'd be nothing stopping you from leaving on your own and securing some points, but you could risk losing those points to try to earn a few more if you CHOSE TO.  I don't see how this is somehow a bad idea to everyone.  Choices and options are bad?

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Because it'd be a more exciting match if instead of just saying "Well car's fixed I'm out screw all of you" you had to think "Well I could leave, but if I can help save one of them, I'll get more xp" and decide if the risk vs reward is worth it or not.  There'd be nothing stopping you from leaving on your own and securing some points, but you could risk losing those points to try to earn a few more if you CHOSE TO.  I don't see how this is somehow a bad idea to everyone.  Choices and options are bad?

 

You already have choices and options.  And they are not incentivized, which is the best sort of choice.  It's a choice of pure freedom.  It comes with its own natural consequences already, I am not sure how you don't see that but I may have to explain it;

 

You can, and reasonably should, leave on a car or boat by yourself because you can get going right away; Jason will have less of a chance to get you.  If you leave as soon as its started, Jason has less time to prepare.  On the other hand, wait for more people by being nice, but the drawback is that Jason has time to prepare.

 

I wouldn't mind a small tiny XP bonus, as a sort of nod of recognition... but I don't see any number being significant enough to stop for people.  Anything above +50 is incentivizing beyond what the game already allows you to do.  And I don't think we should incentivize any teamwork.  Maybe +5 points per rescued teammate.  Thus you're rewarded but y'know, the goal is still to save yourself above all else.  Again, this has been stated many times before; you are to save yourself that is the ultimate goal.  If you fall short of that you've FAILED.  As far as I remember, the XP for surviving in the Beta was about 600 points?  That's... Extraordinary, in fact you'd be far better off winning matches than grinding those tiny points and dying all the time.

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Because it'd be a more exciting match if instead of just saying "Well car's fixed I'm out screw all of you" you had to think "Well I could leave, but if I can help save one of them, I'll get more xp" and decide if the risk vs reward is worth it or not.  There'd be nothing stopping you from leaving on your own and securing some points, but you could risk losing those points to try to earn a few more if you CHOSE TO.  I don't see how this is somehow a bad idea to everyone.  Choices and options are bad?

If you want to save other players, then you shouldn't need an incentive for it. Either help or don't; it should come down to your own decision, not based on rewards. You can't really say that you're being altruistic if you stand to gain from it.

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If there's no incentive for doing it, literally no one will ever bother, because it's not a choice at that point.  You're stupid if you don't escape ASAP without a bonus for total surviving players.

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If there's no incentive for doing it, literally no one will ever bother, because it's not a choice at that point.  You're stupid if you don't escape ASAP without a bonus for total surviving players.

 

That's not what we've seen from the Beta.  Most people have enough curtsy to pick up people who are right next to the car or helping with it.

 

That's from my experience anyway.

 

Just like For Honor.  People choose, when dueling, to either sit out and let them fight or to join their teammate and go 2 v 1.

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That's not what we've seen from the Beta.  Most people have enough curtsy to pick up people who are right next to the car or helping with it.

 

That's from my experience anyway.

 

Just like For Honor.  People choose, when dueling, to either sit out and let them fight or to join their teammate and go 2 v 1.

 

When this hits the mainstream, not having a bonus for helping other players will just lead to more griefing and trolling.  It's likely that players in beta didn't realize there was no incentive to help anyone, and many of them probably came from DbD, where there IS incentive for helping other players.  That will change if there is literally no benefit to helping people other than potentially getting yourself killed.

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When this hits the mainstream, not having a bonus for helping other players will just lead to more griefing and trolling.  It's likely that players in beta didn't realize there was no incentive to help anyone, and many of them probably came from DbD, where there IS incentive for helping other players.  That will change if there is literally no benefit to helping people other than potentially getting yourself killed.

 

A) So what if this is the case?  So what if people leave you for dead?  That's part of the fun; not being forced to help someone in order to grind, like DbD.  There's no fun in that because in order to even rank up you HAVE to help people, there's no option to leave someone for dead.  Hell, we have a section of the forum that is for STORIES of stuff like this.  It's a part of the fun, and this most certainly isn't a competitive game.  It's an "every man for themselves" sort of game style and I LOVE IT it fits the killer vibe very well.

 

B ) It's not griefing or trolling.  The game encourages you to survive by any means.  If you wanna be an asshole and leave some people behind so be it; you still have three other means of escape; Cops, Boat, or Survival.  Two of those things do not require any sort of team contribution.

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I'm saying if you want to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun or beat them to death with a baseball bat, there's currently no penalties for doing so.  There's no incentive to help a stranger, so there's no reason anyone would.  I'm not saying you should get like a 5x xp multiplier, but SOMETHING, even if it's just a 1% xp gain per surviving player.

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I'm saying if you want to shoot someone in the face with a shotgun or beat them to death with a baseball bat, there's currently no penalties for doing so. There's no incentive to help a stranger, so there's no reason anyone would. I'm not saying you should get like a 5x xp multiplier, but SOMETHING, even if it's just a 1% xp gain per surviving player.

Well they already put prevention in place for guns and such as far as I know.

 

But again, why do we need an incentive to help a stranger? I don't WANT an incentive. I want to do whatever the fuck I feel like doing.

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Well they already put prevention in place for guns and such as far as I know.

But again, why do we need an incentive to help a stranger? I don't WANT an incentive. I want to do whatever the fuck I feel like doing.

I agree- fuck strangers. :) I'll help if it benefits me, otherwise no.

 

I don't mind the idea of an XP award for driving a car to the escape with other people in it though. I've been playing Battlefront lately and you get rewards for 'this many kills with this' or for 'healing this many team members'. The XP award isn't enough for me to set out to do those things specifically though.

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Well they already put prevention in place for guns and such as far as I know.

 

But again, why do we need an incentive to help a stranger? I don't WANT an incentive. I want to do whatever the fuck I feel like doing.

No one is forcing you to do it, you don't have to do it, regardless of incentives, but without even a mild incentive to do it, literally no one will ever help anyone.  Ever.

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No one is forcing you to do it, you don't have to do it, regardless of incentives, but without even a mild incentive to do it, literally no one will ever help anyone. Ever.

But that's simply untrue.

 

You see this contradicted in most games. Again, mention For Honor. There's no incentive to be honorable and let a duel play out but many people do it. It's a sort of unspoken, but people usually abide by it even though there's zero reason to. So the idea that you need an incentive or a particular thing won't happen ever is just... well, false.

 

Most people usually let others get into the car with them. That's whats observed in the Beta. I understand why you may think that way but there's no proof that this is the case, there is proof of the opposite.

 

Have you played the Beta?

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I feel like you two have been arguing for far long so let me say something. Shodan, you've been saying noone will help strangers, and i understand why you might think everyone is a selfish asshole, but the truth is, you're wrong, take a look at any, and i mean ANY multiplayer game, in Overwatch i'll have someone who insta-locks Mercy or Lucio almost EVERY GAME. In Battlefield 1 i see 1 or 2 medics in every 6 person squad. And these are just 2 examples out of the many, many multiplayer games out there, seriously, play ANY multiplayer game where theres a healer/support character or class and tell me how many people play them. Except TF2, cause alot of tf2 games i only see 1 or 2 medics. But outside of tf2 pretty much every game people play the healer/support. Hopefully now we can stop arguing and do something more productive.

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I played the beta, and at the time, most people were so confused about how to play that they mostly just ran around getting killed.  Once the game's been out for a while, people will only focus on what earns them xp.  If helping other players live doesn't do that, they will be completely unconcerned with it.  That's not just human nature, it's intrinsically encouraged by not rewarding teamwork.  I've played enough competitive multiplayer games to know that anyone will use any advantage to maximize their own experience at the expense of everyone around them.  Even in Dead by Daylight, where you are massively encouraged to help other players, even if it means you die in the process, almost no one ever bothers to help you unless it happens to be convenient.  There's no reason to think that in this game, the majority of people will all try to play for a team win rather than a solo win.

 

In regards to Overwatch etc. having support classes: those games are an entirely different style of game.  You literally can't succeed solo in those games.  Just because you CAN succeed by yourself in F13 doesn't mean they should completely discourage all teamwork.
 

Further, if they don't want anyone to work together, why is the radio such an important item?  Teamwork is literally the point of an asymmetric game, because if it were 1 on 1, Jason wins every time.  If you watched the old streams of the devs playing, they were all in constant communication and working together heavily to allow everyone to escape.  That's how it's intended to be played.

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I played the beta, and at the time, most people were so confused about how to play that they mostly just ran around getting killed. Once the game's been out for a while, people will only focus on what earns them xp. If helping other players live doesn't do that, they will be completely unconcerned with it. That's not just human nature, it's intrinsically encouraged by not rewarding teamwork. I've played enough competitive multiplayer games to know that anyone will use any advantage to maximize their own experience at the expense of everyone around them. Even in Dead by Daylight, where you are massively encouraged to help other players, even if it means you die in the process, almost no one ever bothers to help you unless it happens to be convenient. There's no reason to think that in this game, the majority of people will all try to play for a team win rather than a solo win.

 

In regards to Overwatch etc. having support classes: those games are an entirely different style of game. You literally can't succeed solo in those games. Just because you CAN succeed by yourself in F13 doesn't mean they should completely discourage all teamwork.

 

Further, if they don't want anyone to work together, why is the radio such an important item? Teamwork is literally the point of an asymmetric game, because if it were 1 on 1, Jason wins every time. If you watched the old streams of the devs playing, they were all in constant communication and working together heavily to allow everyone to escape. That's how it's intended to be played.

"Intended to be played"

 

Lol

 

We've already been through this. And the Devs have explained this. They DO NOT WANT THIS GAME TO BE COMPETITIVE.

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"Intended to be played"

 

Lol

 

We've already been through this. And the Devs have explained this. They DO NOT WANT THIS GAME TO BE COMPETITIVE.

 

... they want it to be co-operative.  I never said this game was meant to be competitive.  It's not co-operative if all 7 players are trying to be lone wolves and steal the car for their own escape.

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... they want it to be co-operative. I never said this game was meant to be competitive. It's not co-operative if all 7 players are trying to be lone wolves and steal the car for their own escape.

Please quote and show some evidence for this.

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