wes

How to stop "looping" or troll behavior against Jason.

96 posts in this topic

Good point, but I imagine many situations where there may be no choice but to go through the broken window and get hurt, so Jason can catch me and kill me, and I feel the psychological horror now, I very fearful (and I like it, but is weird).

 

P.S: Do you understand my English? I feel a little stupid talking in English because I don't have much knowledge...

 

Jason won't be able to catch and kill you just because you went through a broken window.  You just lose a little bit of health, you can still run.. but if you KEEP going back and forth through the same window, THEN you will hurt yourself. 

 

MY view point to the whole thing is... if you are alone, or maybe you know Jason's coming, but he doesn't know where YOU are.. you could safe crawl out the window, preventing injury, and/or granting you a more quieter escape WITHOUT injury.  The quieter escape would work on both regular and broken windows obviously.

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Jason won't be able to catch and kill you just because you went through a broken window.  You just lose a little bit of health, you can still run.. but if you KEEP going back and forth through the same window, THEN you will hurt yourself. 

 

MY view point to the whole thing is... if you are alone, or maybe you know Jason's coming, but he doesn't know where YOU are.. you could safe crawl out the window, preventing injury, and/or granting you a more quieter escape WITHOUT injury.  The quieter escape would work on both regular and broken windows obviously.

 

You're right. Your point is very logical. Actually, I agree with everything that is said in this post. Anyway, in this game everything seems possible.

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alright, just to clear things up in case somebody still doesn't know what this means.

 

The problem: Counselors keep jumping back and forth trough window's to keep Jason away, as he needs to go all around the house to get to them.

 

The solution: Jason can now Break glass. if a Counselor now decides to keep jumping back and forth he will lose health.

 

as in, you have 100HP and climb trough a broken window, you'd lose like 5HP.  no big loss. but if you keep climbing back in and out, you will reach a state where you are easy prey for Jason.

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You should after 4 times going in and out of a broken window repeatedly, like in a troll fashion, automatically fall and impale yourself on the broken glass, or slip and slit your own throat.

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I worry about Jason breaking all the windows, because I don't use a loop but I know I need run away Jason. If Jason do this, counselours are without options. But I think this is a great idea. In the films, Jason have head-start, but counselours haven't this.

 

P.S: Sorry for my bad English

 

Counselors are not without options... there are way too many cabins for counselors to worry about it.  not to mention that going through a window once is all you really need to do...  Name me one situation where you will be required to go through a window more than twice as normal gameplay.

 

Maybe once to get in and once to get out assuming you're using the window for both.  Not to mention that you can choose another window.

 

Not to mention that both Part 2 and 3 Jason have the ability to run.

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Counselors are not without options... there are way too many cabins for counselors to worry about it.

 

Not to mention that both Part 2 and 3 Jason have the ability to run.

 

Yep, I thinking about that, and I agree with you. Maybe I familiarize with find trolls in others videogames and is the reason because I think this will happen in this game. I hope not happen, really.

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You guys are forgetting too, the more a person trolls Jason, the more FEAR they are inducing on themselves, and the more fucked they are in a chase.

 

So the idea, is to stay away from Jason in general right?

 

Someone mentioned, what if the counselor chooses a new window to jump in and out of... basically leading Jason around an entire cabin, looping as many windows as they can, to buy their friends time, and just make the killer (player) pissed off. 

 

I don't think this will be a problem because of the FEAR meter.  The more a person does that, the more they are liable to **make mistakes out of FEAR**.  Let's say they go through their second window trolling Jason.  By this time their counselor is scared (the same as any person in real life would be), so now they're making stupid exhausted mistakes as anyone would do.  NOW they're slipping out the window clumsily, maybe they tumble out and and it takes a while for them to get back up and regain composure again before running, (ie they just lost a great deal of time).

 

So trolling Jason, because of the fact he's making the counselor scared and tired, would have to be something to consider.

 

I really love this invisible FEAR meter that people won't be able to see... if Gun and Illfonic make this thing work right, it would be the death of map exploits and loop trolling.  Because you can't over power this mechanic, or break it.

Juez, DamonD7, Fatalfox and 1 other like this

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In an effort to negate players ability to troll Jason via windows, we've implemented a new mechanic into the game. We noticed in playtests that we could be inside a cabin, and when Jason enters, just hop out a window. As Jason comes around the cabin to face the counselor, they could simply jump back in. Now Jason has to go back to the door, and guess what would happen? Yep, the counselor would just jump back out again. This is frustrating. Sure, it's a great approach if you're a counselor, but that leads to an unbalanced experience. Our solution? Let Jason break windows.

 

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So how does breaking a window thwart this behavior? Well, once Jason attacks a window, it leaves little shards of glass in the window pane. Now if a counselor hops through that window, they get cut. Continue hopping back and forth, and you will reach a wounded state. Once wounded, your movements are limited. We will continue to balance this during the beta to get to a point that "feels right" and fair for all players. 

 

The last thing we wanted was someone finding this "looping" mechanic and exploit it. That's never fun. Sure, Jason could change up his plan of attack. He could simply leave the area, go kill others and then find that other player once they are out in the open. But once a player finds an exploit like that, they will use it over and over and over. It becomes part of their tactics to stay alive. We hope you guys find this new mechanic fair. Once beta hits, we'd love to hear your feedback on it. 

nice very nice.

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Guys I know...on top of getting injured what if 1 out of 3 times you exit a broken window your shirt or pants gets snagged on a piece of glass causing the counselor to get stuck for say 3 - 4 seconds?

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You wouldn't just use the door if you are trying to get out of the house without making it obvious you are just walking out the front door.

 

Walking out the FRONT (most obvious) part of the house is NOT the best choice sometimes.  If you go through a side window with the more careful and QUIETER approach, you can make a side exit, and hopefully not alert Jason, especially if you know he's approaching from the front of the house.  Running through a broken window at speed, will hurt, and be LOUDER and more audible for Jason to hear, where as walk (careful crawl) will make no noise and won't alert Jason... however if he's chasing you, that option probably isn't the best choice.

 

Right... I keep forgetting this games more stealth oriented (And I keep forgetting how slow Jason is). I was thinking in the context of if Jason already knows your there you would be better off powering through the window.

 

If hes approaching and DOESN'T know your there this makes more sense.

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You guys are forgetting too, the more a person trolls Jason, the more FEAR they are inducing on themselves, and the more fucked they are in a chase.

 

So the idea, is to stay away from Jason in general right?

 

Someone mentioned, what if the counselor chooses a new window to jump in and out of... basically leading Jason around an entire cabin, looping as many windows as they can, to buy their friends time, and just make the killer (player) pissed off. 

 

I don't think this will be a problem because of the FEAR meter.  The more a person does that, the more they are liable to **make mistakes out of FEAR**.  Let's say they go through their second window trolling Jason.  By this time their counselor is scared (the same as any person in real life would be), so now they're making stupid exhausted mistakes as anyone would do.  NOW they're slipping out the window clumsily, maybe they tumble out and and it takes a while for them to get back up and regain composure again before running, (ie they just lost a great deal of time).

 

So trolling Jason, because of the fact he's making the counselor scared and tired, would have to be something to consider.

 

I really love this invisible FEAR meter that people won't be able to see... if Gun and Illfonic make this thing work right, it would be the death of map exploits and loop trolling.  Because you can't over power this mechanic, or break it.

True enough. The Fear meter and the stamina system would definitely help to curb these actions. I do still think the extra protection from those actions is certainly appreciated. :)

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Here's my two cents on the window thing.  It's a great idea for the counselors and looping issues.  However,

 

Let's say Jason goes around and busts all the windows to cabins... 

this behavior would prevent window usage to counselors.

 

SOLUTION:  Have the counselors be able to crawl through windows unharmed, but they'll go through a much slower window crawl animation to stay safe.

 

So essentially, to go through the window without injury, you'd have to press the action button without holding the run button.

While you are holding the run button, the counselor will get through the window at speed, but will be injured.  (and make much more noise on top of that).

 

If you 'walk' (careful crawl - through the window), Jason will be able to catch up to you (if you are in a chase) and pull you back in, or just slash you as you exit the window... OR... what if he could grab the window sill, stab/smash the person in the window and now that window is blocked with a dead body.

 

Cool ideas for thought.

Very cool idea.

But allow me to modify this idea a little bit. :)

If Jason smash the glass of the window there will be shards on the frame. It doesn't matter how slow you walk or crawl through the window. You will get hurt. But you can still open the frame and swing it aside or push it up (depends on how the windows can be opened) to climb out the window without hurting yourself.

 

So my addtional suggestion to Laphins idea is that the counselors have the abillity to smash windows as well. When they are inside the cabin they can choose go out the window by the traditional way by opening the frame and climb outside which costs more time cause the window bolts and locks are old an a little bit rusty and hard to open. Or the counselors can choose the fast but noisy method by smashing a window and jump or climb outside and hurting themself by the shards.

When you open the frame and climb outside the frame itself can swing or fall back to its close position and the locks will bolt the window again so there is no way back for the counselor to go inside of the cabin again because he can't open the lock from outside (this happen in many Horror Movies). Of course he can smash the window from the outside and climb in there again but he will hurt himself on the shards.

 

So as result it could look like this.

 

- Jason can smash windows. The shards on the frame will hurt the counselor when they climb in or outside. At same time the attack on the window will damage the frame so it won't open any more and climbing through the shards is the only way in or out.

 

- Counselors can smash windows, too. Inside a cabin the counselors have two options to go through a window. The fast, noisy and dangerous way by smashing a window by themselfs. Or the traditional slow but silent method by opening the frame and climb outside. And maybe Jason can use the frame for a kill when gets you before you are outside. Using the slow method is a one way option. You can climb from inside to outside but after you leave the window it fall back to their closed position and the locks will bolt the window. You can't open windows from the outside on the traditional way.

 

-The counselor can smash the window and damage the frame from the outside but then he will hurt himself when he try to climb back to the inside and he will cause some noise. But the noise can be used to distract the Jason player. As a counselor you can smash a window and make some noise without climbing through the window hoping that the Jason player will hear that and approach your position. There is no gurantee that he will do so but it is a possibilty to distract him and pull him away from other counselors.

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Considering that we know there are two ways to go through a window, climb through or dive through; I'm going to assume that climbing through a broken window is going to hurt you, but maybe diving through won't?

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Considering that we know there are two ways to go through a window, climb through or dive through; I'm going to assume that climbing through a broken window is going to hurt you, but maybe diving through won't?

 

I don't think that is the case because the whole point of the broken window system is to stop the counselor from constantly jumping in and out of the same window to avoid and troll the Jason player.

 

I think Laphin's idea makes a heck of a lot of sense.  If you use the slow method of crawling out a window, the animation will take a while, but you will avoid hurting yourself or making noise.  This would not really be useful in a chase sequence since Jason would be able to grab and kill you before you are able to make your way out of the window due to the long animation.

 

Then there is the quick method where you quickly climb or jump out of the window.  The animation is a lot quicker which will allow you to avoid Jason, but if it is a broken window you will take damage from the glass shards.  This will prevent you from constantly jumping in and out of windows.

 

So I find the idea of having two different window climb animations (slow and fast) to be a good one.  It allows for some flexibility on the counselor's part (slow and stealthy or quick and reckless).  It also prevents counselors from trolling Jason via window hopping, but also prevents Jason from trolling counselors by just breaking every window he sees.

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Well as I mentioned the system for going through windows is currently either climb through it or dive through. There's an easy way to close the loop and stop trolls with this system, diving through a broken window doesn't get you cut up, but make it cost a lot of stamina to do it. Maybe even cut off the ability to dive through the window at a certain stamina level, or have the counselor fall to the ground catching their breath for several seconds when their stamina gets low enough after diving through a window. Laphin's system does indeed have promise, but I'm simply working with what the developers have confirmed so far.

 

Speaking of which, if anyone was interested, here's the link to the tweet where Wes mentioned diving through windows.

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Diving through a window comes with the risk of injury (even if it isn't broken) so I think that aspect is covered.

 

I like what they've done here. The only other fix that I could think of is that after a counselor goes through the same window more than once, Jason could be given a VERY limited use of RAGE (has to be used within 10 seconds, for example). With RAGE, Jason could simply break through the wall and put an end to the looping game. Either that, or let Jason go through windows too.

 

Of the options, I like the one they've implemented the best.

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Yep, you can dive through closed windows.

Nice i will be doing that for sure then might be risky on health but oh well if jason is nearby got to get out as fast as possible lol

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What about counselors who run around and around a car? Jason couldn't catch them in a game of tag tonight.

its been suggested in a few ways on how to take care of this problem,question is how do you do it so both sides have a fair chance?

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What about counselors who run around and around a car? Jason couldn't catch them in a game of tag tonight.

This mainly comes down to Jason's run/walk speed vs some of the counselors jogging speeds, mainly Vanessa's and Tommy's.  He needs to be able to close the gap a lot easier by walking or running to counselors if they're jogging, no matter which counselor.  The only time a counselor should be able to widen the gap between them and Jason is when they're in full sprint.  If Jasons walk/run speed was faster than Vanessa's or Tommy's jog (can't think of any other counselor where this could be an issue, maybe Tiffany) they would have no choice but to be pressured into running to a cabin to gain some time and stamina so they can try to make it to another safe spot.  They also of course need to adjust stamina values for a lot of the counselors so it feels lot more balanced.

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