BloodOnTheRocks

Why random Jason will break the game.

131 posts in this topic

Let me put it like this - if the system is random, I do not know what kind of experience I will have when I load up the game. If I had a bad day at work, Im not feeling meek and scared and counselor-ey. I wanna get in someone's face and brutalize them. If I play GTA or Sniper Elite III, I know what kind of experience I am going to have. I'm fired up. I wanna get in there and spill some blood. How can I take that mindset into F13 when it seems like most of the time I'll end up playing as a counselor when that's the exact opposite of what I want to do? If someone is in the mood to play as a counselor, hey, awesome. I'm sure I'll feel like it too. But doing it randomly just doesnt make sense for soooo many reasons.

The clear response to this is that different games have different mindsets. That doesn't make them bad or poorly designed games though. If you get home from work and want to just shoot something in the face then you'll play something else. When you're ready to hunt or be hunted, then you'll load up Friday the 13th. No differently than if you have 20 minutes before you have to leave for work, you're not going to load up Skyrim or Fallout 4 and expect to accomplish anything major in the game.

 

By making Jason random it creates a sense of excitement every time you get to play as him, similar to finding the Hero icon in Battlefront. If they make the game so that everyone can choose then you're going to run into a ton of rooms with someone that's already laid claim to Jason and is just waiting for 7 counselors to join. Would you rather it be fair for everyone to have a dice roll chance at playing Jason or would you rather wait forever for players to join your room while you wait to play as Jason? The answer is obvious from a game design standpoint. The devs want people playing the game, not sitting in waiting rooms clogging server space.

 

My expectation is that they have some sort of counter for each player so that the more matches you play as a counselor, the higher the odds are that you'll become Jason the next match (similar to how the NBA does their draft lottery). That way, you don't run the risk of just being really unlucky and not getting to be Jason for like 15-20 matches in a row, and it can easily follow your account even when you turn it off for the night and come back the next day.

The Arrogant Man likes this

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The clear response to this is that different games have different mindsets. That doesn't make them bad or poorly designed games though. If you get home from work and want to just shoot something in the face then you'll play something else. When you're ready to hunt or be hunted, then you'll load up Friday the 13th. No differently than if you have 20 minutes before you have to leave for work, you're not going to load up Skyrim or Fallout 4 and expect to accomplish anything major in the game.

 

By making Jason random it creates a sense of excitement every time you get to play as him, similar to finding the Hero icon in Battlefront. If they make the game so that everyone can choose then you're going to run into a ton of rooms with someone that's already laid claim to Jason and is just waiting for 7 counselors to join. Would you rather it be fair for everyone to have a dice roll chance at playing Jason or would you rather wait forever for players to join your room while you wait to play as Jason? The answer is obvious from a game design standpoint. The devs want people playing the game, not sitting in waiting rooms clogging server space.

 

My expectation is that they have some sort of counter for each player so that the more matches you play as a counselor, the higher the odds are that you'll become Jason the next match (similar to how the NBA does their draft lottery). That way, you don't run the risk of just being really unlucky and not getting to be Jason for like 15-20 matches in a row, and it can easily follow your account even when you turn it off for the night and come back the next day.

Id rather have the OPTION to wait. Thats what I keep hammering on. Give me the OPTION to wait. If its 2 hours then so be it .... it was my choice. Maybe Ill get tired of waiting and decide bleh....Ill just play as a counselor. All Im saying is to give us the option to wait if we so choose.

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Id rather have the OPTION to wait. Thats what I keep hammering on. Give me the OPTION to wait. If its 2 hours then so be it .... it was my choice. Maybe Ill get tired of waiting and decide bleh....Ill just play as a counselor. All Im saying is to give us the option to wait if we so choose.

Or still end up playing Jason...

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Or still end up playing Jason...

 

You're right, I COULD still end up playing as Jason in that case. All I am asking is that we are given the choice to wait or to try our luck. Nothing more.

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Id rather have the OPTION to wait. Thats what I keep hammering on. Give me the OPTION to wait. If its 2 hours then so be it .... it was my choice. Maybe Ill get tired of waiting and decide bleh....Ill just play as a counselor. All Im saying is to give us the option to wait if we so choose.

But that's my point. Server space costs money, and available game rooms are finite. The developers can't allow a bunch of rooms to sit empty because one random guy hijacked the Jason spot 20 minutes ago and is waiting for 7 counselors to join. That's clearly going to happen if you allow people to choose who they play as cause the large majority of gamers are going to naturally want to play as the iconic lead character. Those people won't join if they know right out of the gate that they won't even get a chance to play as him for at least 10 minutes or longer.

 

And does that really sound fun anyways? Waiting X amount of time to play as Jason ONCE and then either have to quit to wait all over again or just get thrown into the counselor group when someone else takes Jason over the next match... I get your whole "getting off work and I want to play a game" mentality, but in the same vein, I don't get off work looking forward to waiting 10+ minutes at a time to play a game either. Ultimately everyone paid to play the game, so it only makes sense that everyone have equal opportunity to play as Jason instead of rewarding those with either way too much free time or patience. In this topic there's no specific way to please everyone. Your idea would piss a few people off, making it random will piss some people off. In a no win situation though, fairness should often be the tie breaker and a randomized Jason is the only fair system.

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But that's my point. Server space costs money, and available game rooms are finite. The developers can't allow a bunch of rooms to sit empty because one random guy hijacked the Jason spot 20 minutes ago and is waiting for 7 counselors to join. That's clearly going to happen if you allow people to choose who they play as cause the large majority of gamers are going to naturally want to play as the iconic lead character. Those people won't join if they know right out of the gate that they won't even get a chance to play as him for at least 10 minutes or longer.

 

And does that really sound fun anyways? Waiting X amount of time to play as Jason ONCE and then either have to quit to wait all over again or just get thrown into the counselor group when someone else takes Jason over the next match... I get your whole "getting off work and I want to play a game" mentality, but in the same vein, I don't get off work looking forward to waiting 10+ minutes at a time to play a game either. Ultimately everyone paid to play the game, so it only makes sense that everyone have equal opportunity to play as Jason instead of rewarding those with either way too much free time or patience. In this topic there's no specific way to please everyone. Your idea would piss a few people off, making it random will piss some people off. In a no win situation though, fairness should often be the tie breaker and a randomized Jason is the only fair system.

I will be honest and admit that I had not considered server space. Its the first valid reason Ive heard that would argue against giving people the option. Point taken.

 

And I know its going to sound like a broken record here but for some reason I feel like I am being misunderstood. Im not suggesting that people shouldnt be able to choose to play random rooms. Im just saying that people should be given all options. Meaning.....if they want to go for a random selection room then they should be able to. If they dont wanna wait then thats their best bet. If they wanna play counselor only then that should be an option. Id they wanna play Jason only then that also should be an option. Give us rooms and tools to be able to do any of those things is all I am saying.

 

But to your point....those people who wont join if they know theyve gotta wait that long to be guaranteed to play Jason might not even BUY the game to begin with if they know its random. Which is why I think itll hurt sales.

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But to your point....those people who wont join if they know theyve gotta wait that long to be guaranteed to play Jason might not even BUY the game to begin with if they know its random. Which is why I think itll hurt sales.

Honestly, the likelihood that a number of people at all would not buy the game simply cause they can't be Jason 100% of the time seems pretty low. If they really were that fickle, they could take solace in knowing the single player campaign is entirely Jason based. Either way, every developer has to make decisions that will appeal to some gamers and less so to others. I have friends that don't like Battlefield cause the maps and player count size are too much for them so they stick with 16 player CoD, and others that feel the opposite. I have friends that liked the arcadey goofiness of Tony Hawk and others that preferred the more serious tones of Skate. Game design decisions always have these sorts of consequences. I'm not saying they might not implement something like what you want, just saying that if they didn't, it would probably be because they're trying to keep the game as fair and engaging to the entire community as possible.

Nothingface and DamonD7 like this

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Thats why it pays to research things you buy. Not just games but things in general. Knowledge is power. Find out all you can before you buy it. Simple. Like it enough to buy and play it, or upset enough at lacks in it or things that you dont like to not buy it. Not exactly rocket science.

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Singleplayer Bots should satiate Jason fans. If we can untoggle Jason as a counselor preferred player that'd be great, give those who really want Jason more of a chance.

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Singleplayer Bots should satiate Jason fans. If we can untoggle Jason as a counselor preferred player that'd be great, give those who really want Jason more of a chance.

 

I believe it has been confirmed that we can opt out of playing Jason. Which at least IMO is better than it being COMPLETELY random. Even if I cannot choose to line up to play Jason, I definitely want to be able to opt out for those times when I just dont feel that ..... mischevious.

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Id rather have the OPTION to wait. Thats what I keep hammering on. Give me the OPTION to wait. If its 2 hours then so be it .... it was my choice. Maybe Ill get tired of waiting and decide bleh....Ill just play as a counselor. All Im saying is to give us the option to wait if we so choose.

They give you the option to wait. It even comes with this fun mini game you can play while you wait called consular, it actually looks pretty fun!

 

In all seriousness tho, a que waiting to play Jason would feel like shit for the folks who want to DO something while waiting to play Jason. This would make it so folks willing to wait would effectively FUCK folks who want to play the from ever playing Jason and honestly sounds un-fun as hell.

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In the movies, Jason always plays with advantage, the counselours not because they be defenceless. Jason is bigger, "faster", stronger and he definitely act with rage. If Jason break the game, I don't know this, but I think Jason must be superior or better than counselours. The creators of this game only capture different ideas from the movies and move it to the game. Because this, play with Jason or control Jason maybe not be for everyone.

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From what's been explained and told, it seems to me that it'll function alot like Evolve did. Now, i played Evolve when it was brand new (beta and all). And while there were rounds where i wasn't able to play as the monster (it was first pick for me the entire time), the vast majority allowed me to play as it.

 

If it works as well as that, i have no issue.

 

Though i feel the devs should open up to experimenting more on this. The DbD system is "broken" as it is right now simply because nobody wants to play as killer. And as long as the devs don't implement the self heal/sabotage killer/usain bolt mode type of perks i don't see that as an issue.

 

The devs have stated they balance as much as possible (which is to be expected), but if they are really balancing it as well as they think, then there should be ample opportunity for experimenting more with how the lobby system works while still retaining the same playerbase.

 

DbD is dying because the balance is skewered more and more towards survivors, i'm banking that illfonic will see the importance of CORRECT balancing here.

 

Case in point the window changes. This is an eternal struggle in DbD, and F13 got it right in basic playtesting. They fucking fixed it right quick, whereas the devs on DbD only did a half-assed measure to sometimes maybe block a window or two which did fuck-all.

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From what's been explained and told, it seems to me that it'll function alot like Evolve did. Now, i played Evolve when it was brand new (beta and all). And while there were rounds where i wasn't able to play as the monster (it was first pick for me the entire time), the vast majority allowed me to play as it.

 

If it works as well as that, i have no issue.

 

Though i feel the devs should open up to experimenting more on this. The DbD system is "broken" as it is right now simply because nobody wants to play as killer. And as long as the devs don't implement the self heal/sabotage killer/usain bolt mode type of perks i don't see that as an issue.

 

The devs have stated they balance as much as possible (which is to be expected), but if they are really balancing it as well as they think, then there should be ample opportunity for experimenting more with how the lobby system works while still retaining the same playerbase.

 

DbD is dying because the balance is skewered more and more towards survivors, i'm banking that illfonic will see the importance of CORRECT balancing here.

 

Case in point the window changes. This is an eternal struggle in DbD, and F13 got it right in basic playtesting. They fucking fixed it right quick, whereas the devs on DbD only did a half-assed measure to sometimes maybe block a window or two which did fuck-all.

It's not just the survivor's advantage that's the problem. It's annoying to play as the killer. When you should feel like a hunter, you instead feel like the slow kid on the playground no one wants to play with, but has too anyway. So they just run around you while you play a one man game of grabass you probably can't even win.

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I tried DbD for a few hours just to see what everyone was talking about. It wasnt fun. It was completely repetetive, it was very twitchy, and annoying in general. Visibility sucks. seems like every level has high grass so you cannot see players more than a few feet away. It's super fast paced which builds no mood or tension. And I hate the kill system. From what we have seen of gameplay of F13 it seems quite different and I hope Im right.

 

The devs have said that Jason is OP and he SHOULD be. The killers in DbD are WEAK. The only reason they're even the killers is because the survivors cannot attack them.

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I tried DbD for a few hours just to see what everyone was talking about. It wasnt fun. It was completely repetetive, it was very twitchy, and annoying in general. Visibility sucks. seems like every level has high grass so you cannot see players more than a few feet away. It's super fast paced which builds no mood or tension. And I hate the kill system. From what we have seen of gameplay of F13 it seems quite different and I hope Im right.

 

The devs have said that Jason is OP and he SHOULD be. The killers in DbD are WEAK. The only reason they're even the killers is because the survivors cannot attack them.

If you want a slower paced game of the same type try out White Noise 2.

 

Its the same premise of 4 v 1 Asymmetric horror, But the game has a slower pace and everyone is in first person. It relies on atmosphere and lighting more than twitch controls and meta builds. You can also choose to be the killer pre game.

 

I understand the allure of always being the hunter. Its my favorite roll, (Far more so than survivor,) But with the amount of players we are talking about with Friday the 13th is 8..  8 player Asymmetric game ?! That's UNHEARD of outside of little indie games like Dead Realm..

 

Matter of fact I cant think of another one BESIDES Dead Realm. And ya that game had to have random killers to get lobbies to launch as well.

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Jpops, by making me come to this you've completely ruined the point of my post. I specifically asked for a Gun employee to give a clear explanation of how the current system is working. This does not provide that, and makes it much less likely that my request will be seen and answered. Your post in my thread was completely unclear too. Not cool man, not cool.

Also, I specifically asked a question. It wasn't a suggestion or feedback, so you've directed me from the correct forum to an incorrect one. 

I posted in: Friday the 13th: The Game General Discussion

Talk Friday the 13th: The Game with the community about gameplay! Have comments, questions or concerns directly relating to the game? Post here!

  
This one is: Friday the 13th: The Game -- Suggestions/Feedback

Have ideas about what you want to see in the game? Got a cool thought about something you'd think would be cool for the game? Perhaps you've got feedback from what you've seen so far? Post here!

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Sam I am sorry you feel that way. We need to manage these threads so they do not get out of control. As I said in my post nothing has been announced. I also referred you here if you want to use this as a reference.

 

We hear you and know that there's a lot of people that want to be Jason and a lot that don't want to be Jason. We will have more news on a system we believe is going to work well for as many people as possible. It's impossible to please everyone, but we hope to get as many positive aspects in place overall :).

Also it is not less likely to be read. Everything is read here.

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That would be fine if they were the same thing, but they're not. One is a discussion on why a proposed method won't (in one opinion) work. The other is a direct question, done in a specific way as to only really get the required attention, rather than cluttering up someone else's thread needlessly or harassing Gun Media via e-mail/Kickstarter/PS4 messages. This is actually counter-productive! XD

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Jpops, by making me come to this you've completely ruined the point of my post. I specifically asked for a Gun employee to give a clear explanation of how the current system is working. This does not provide that, and makes it much less likely that my request will be seen and answered. Your post in my thread was completely unclear too. Not cool man, not cool.

 

Also, I specifically asked a question. It wasn't a suggestion or feedback, so you've directed me from the correct forum to an incorrect one. 

 

I posted in: Friday the 13th: The Game General Discussion

Talk Friday the 13th: The Game with the community about gameplay! Have comments, questions or concerns directly relating to the game? Post here!

  

This one is: Friday the 13th: The Game -- Suggestions/Feedback

Have ideas about what you want to see in the game? Got a cool thought about something you'd think would be cool for the game? Perhaps you've got feedback from what you've seen so far? Post here!

 

 

I'm going to agree with JPops here, as this is a thread of discussion already exists. We have yet to talk about the overall specifics as we're testing out the system we want to utilize. When we do come to what we believe will be the best overall solution, we'll go more in depth :)

 

Please be sure to check on the forum topics before making new ones from here on out. Thanks!

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I'm going to agree with JPops here, as this is a thread of discussion already exists. We have yet to talk about the overall specifics as we're testing out the system we want to utilize. When we do come to what we believe will be the best overall solution, we'll go more in depth :)

 

Please be sure to check on the forum topics before making new ones from here on out. Thanks!

I did check, 3 times. Could not find anything approaching it, and wanted just someone from Gun to see it anyway. Then it could've been pinned, deleted, locked, anything you liked XD

 

Joining an active thread and disrupting the conversation, setting off endless notifications from people that can't help, would've been senseless. All I wanted was a statement of where it stood at the moment, the one that you're using, so that I could settle a debate. I would've stated that it's not guaranteed to be the final system. But all this shows is why there's no point even trying to ask a question on this forum... kudos ;)

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I did check, 3 times. Could not find anything approaching it, and wanted just someone from Gun to see it anyway. Then it could've been pinned, deleted, locked, anything you liked XD

 

Joining an active thread and disrupting the conversation, setting off endless notifications from people that can't help, would've been senseless. All I wanted was a statement of where it stood at the moment, the one that you're using, so that I could settle a debate. I would've stated that it's not guaranteed to be the final system. But all this shows is why there's no point even trying to ask a question on this forum... kudos ;)

The thing is though your question did get answered here whether you like it or not. As far as anyone has been told you will pick your preferred counselor and Jason (and perhaps opt out of being in the run for Jason altogether) and then, based on other factors, a random Jason will be picked out of the pool that want to be Jason. While there weren't many direct answers to that effect, the post that Jpop quoted for you tells you that a lot hasn't been completely nailed down. Therefore you may have to do more searching and reading to get the info you seek, as all of the info I've given can be found with a little due diligence.

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The thing is though your question did get answered here whether you like it or not. As far as anyone has been told you will pick your preferred counselor and Jason (and perhaps opt out of being in the run for Jason altogether) and then, based on other factors, a random Jason will be picked out of the pool that want to be Jason. While there weren't many direct answers to that effect, the post that Jpop quoted for you tells you that a lot hasn't been completely nailed down. Therefore you may have to do more searching and reading to get the info you seek, as all of the info I've given can be found with a little due diligence.

Not really, the post is entirely useless for my purposes. Speculation, pieced together info based on old discussions, and no credibility to the sources. Try showing something like that to someone who is dead set on their idea of how something will be, and they'll instantly shrug it off. That's why I made a simple, uncomplicated request, the point of which was clearly lost on everyone. So, hey, never mind. No point replying to this BTW, I'm not wasting my time here again.

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Not really, the post is entirely useless for my purposes. Speculation, pieced together info based on old discussions, and no credibility to the sources. Try showing something like that to someone who is dead set on their idea of how something will be, and they'll instantly shrug it off. That's why I made a simple, uncomplicated request, the point of which was clearly lost on everyone. So, hey, never mind. No point replying to this BTW, I'm not wasting my time here again.

 

You could show the person who doesn't believe you this quote from Ben :« We have yet to talk about the overall specifics as we're testing out the system we want to utilize. When we do come to what we believe will be the best overall solution, we'll go more in depth  ». Until the beta or a few days before the beta, I'm afraid most features will remain mostly unknown, we will get a lot of surprises! 

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