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Why random Jason will break the game.


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#1
BloodOnTheRocks

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I know this has been repeatedly discussed. I know some of you are going to see me as a whiner. I know I will get a lot of "deal with it. It isnt your game". That is all fine but I need to say this anyway as someone who sees such HUGE potential for this game. I looooove how the devs have truly captured the atmosphere of the films. I have the virtual cabin and it is fantastic. I do not want to see this game ruined by the random Jason system. Devs, I respectfully ask you to hear me out on these points.

- A random Jason system is OK with most people who have been following the game from early on. However, people who hear about it after it releases are going to be surprised at the fact that they will be forced to play as counselors. There is no way around this.....you ARE forcing players to play as counselors. There is going to be massive complaining about this and it will be mentioned in reviews and absolutely will make people shy away from the game resulting in lower sales.

-It punishes those people who dont even WANT to play as Jason. Heres why. Lets say I decide OK....I dont want to be surprised at who I am playing so I will opt out of Jason and just play as a counselor tonight. Great. Now.....3 or 4 other counselors wanted to play Jason that round. They dont get picked. What happens? Some will play anyway. Some will be disappointed and play halfheartedly....maybe even just LOOKING to get killed to get a laugh and not helping the other counselors. Some will simply ragequit.....leaving even fewer counselors to help each other and work together or simply leave less Jason bait on the map. So if I am playing as a counselor and actually trying to accomplish the goal then I am at even more of a disadvantage. If Im going to play a counselor then I want to play with other counselors who actually WANT to be counselors.

-Youre going to end up implementing it anyway. Once the game comes out and is released to the general public....outside of closed or even open beta....youre going to have random people trying it constantly. The ragequits and trolling and complaints are going to build to such a point that the devs will pretty much be forced to let people play as they wish to play. You can implement penalties for those who ragequit or just troll when they are disappointed......but that does NOT fix the match that 5 or 6 other people waited for and were excited to get into. And anyone penalized is only going to get mad. You wont make them play how you want them to play.....itll just tick them off leading to bad blood and complaining. So the person who ragequits gets punished but I do too. If Im jason that is one less person I get to kill....or even if they stick around halfheartedly that robs me of the challenge. If I am a counselor I lost one or 2 or half of my team. Or...again....maybe I dont even want to work as a team but like I said less jason bait running around to hopefully keep him off of ME.

Ive been a heavy mmo gamer since early DAoC days. I see how these things go. Im not trying to be a know it all jerk. I am asking the devs respectfully to consider what I am saying and at least acknowlwdge that their plan for Jason IS to FORCE people to play as they may not want to. At least acknowledge that fact. I understand thst you feel like you need to make it that way but it is NOT going to go well no matter how you consider it.
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#2
ResolutionBlaze

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It won't break the game. It's just inconvinent.

Which is fine id rather have a populated game than the matchmaking mess that is DbD.

Fact is those who rage quit aren't a problem they're a mere annoyance.
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#3
BloodOnTheRocks

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Now that I have said all that.....I will suggest a solution. Let people line up. Let people wait 2 hours to play as Jason even if it takes 2 hours. At least they know they have to wait.....but it will be a choice they made. On the flip side of that....incentivize playing as a counselor. Make some of the best unlocks ONLY available after accomplishing certain goals as a counselor. Maybe to get to play as Tommy....youve got to actually kill Jason so many times. Or unmask him. Or something. Maybe several times. So you have to TRY to be good as a counselor to get at the good stuff. Maybe certain outfits are only available after getting away via boat a certain number of times or surviving soany rounds as a counselor. So people will WANT to play as counselors and actually TRY to do well.

#4
JPops

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Well here is something to consider. If someone is so dead set against experiencing both sides of play they can play with bots which allows the player to take control of Jason everytime. If they would like to play multi-player then they will have to take it for what it is. The problem is there are many people getting bent out of shape about the prospects of gameplay when no one has had an opportunity to take on the role of either. Staunch Jason players may actually enjoy counselor play, they won't know until they play it.

I think anyone who is upset by that should take a step back and wait to make a judgement. Playing Jason or the counselors is fine with me and I think you will find the case to be the same with a majority. Let's not cast stones before anyone experiences anything.
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#5
ResolutionBlaze

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Point is people will realize rage quitting doesn't work and stop doing it.
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#6
BloodOnTheRocks

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Well here is something to consider. If someone is so dead set against experiencing both sides of play they can play with bots which allows the player to take control of Jason everytime. If they would like to play multi-player then they will have to take it for what it is. The problem is there are many people getting bent out of shape about the prospects of gameplay when no one has had an opportunity to take on the role of either. Staunch Jason players may actually enjoy counselor play, they won't know until they play it.
I think anyone who is upset by that should take a step back and wait to make a judgement. Playing Jason or the counselors is fine with me and I think you will find the case to be the same with a majority. Let's not cast stones before anyone experiences anything.


Im not casting stones. Im being realistic based on what Ive seen countless times over many years of playing multiplayer games. I am so sure that this will happen that I hate to see them leave it the way it is set to be. I am not knocking the devs. I understand that it is their game but they are doing it to their detriment and to the players' detriment. We know how people are. All of us who have played multiplayer games know how things are going to go. What it comes down to is choice. Let the player decide. Again......it bears repeating because it is the most important thing in a multiplayer game.....let the player decide so that they fulfill their chosen role with enthusiasm and it makes the game better for everyone. Maybe I WILL like playing as a counselor even more than as Jason. If so...let me choose to do that and let me play with other counselord that CHOSE to fulfill that role.

#7
JPops

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Im not casting stones. Im being realistic based on what Ive seen countless times over many years of playing multiplayer games. I am so sure that this will happen that I hate to see them leave it the way it is set to be. I am not knocking the devs. I understand that it is their game but they are doing it to their detriment and to the players' detriment. We know how people are. All of us who have played multiplayer games know how things are going to go. What it comes down to is choice. Let the player decide. Again......it bears repeating because it is the most important thing in a multiplayer game.....let the player decide so that they fulfill their chosen role with enthusiasm and it makes the game better for everyone. Maybe I WILL like playing as a counselor even more than as Jason. If so...let me choose to do that and let me play with other counselord that CHOSE to fulfill that role.

Well let me play devil's advocate here. You and I are in a game we are both the type who want Jason or we are not playing. You pick him first, I quit the game. How is that any different? Like I said previously if anyone is that dead set on Jason they have options, it's not a decision that was just pulled out of the air. All things considered the scenario you have described is bound to happen one way or the other. That is online gaming and there is not exactly a cure all for the issue.

Also in regard to the casting stones comment that was a broad statement and not particularly directed to you. This topic has been discussed by a few and people are jumping ahead of the game here.

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#8
BloodOnTheRocks

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Well let me play devil's advocate here. You and I are in a game we are both the type who want Jason or we are not playing. You pick him first, I quit the game. How is that any different? Like I said previously if anyone is that dead set on Jason they have options, it's not a decision that was just pulled out of the air. All things considered the scenario you have described is bound to happen one way or the other. That is online gaming and there is not exactly a cure all for the issue.
Also in regard to the casting stones comment that was a broad statement and not particularly directed to you. This topic has been discussed by a few and people are jumping ahead of the game here.


That still sucks for me. If I get Jason and you ragequit....you get penalized which ticks you off. I have one less person I get to kill. The rest of the counselors have one less person to either help them or lure me away from them. So EVERYONE gets penalized. Everyone gets negative effects. Which are easily avoidable if they simply allow people to queue up for Jason as I have suggested multiple times. There IS a good way around it.

#9
BloodOnTheRocks

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Then after all that......youre gonna get on a forum or review site and say "Man....they said Id get to play as Jason but I played for 2 hours and I didnt get to. Then I got mad and quit and I got penalized. This game sucks."
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#10
BloodOnTheRocks

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This is going to sound cocky.....I dont mean it that way. But I do know of what I speak. I used to write PC game and hardware reviews. Started to do OK at it and just didnt have time anymore. Im not trying to start fights or to troll. Im not trying to say oh I know how to make a better ge than the devs do. They have by all indications made an incredible product. This is not meant in any way to insult or to put them down. Ive just seen how this stuff goes and I have a very very good sense of how players get. Yes.....I want to be able to play as Jason and admit somewhat of a personal bias here but it is not ONLY my personal feelings driving this. I am so sure of this happening that I would lay money on it.

#11
JPops

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I think you are neglecting the fact that someone somewhere will be disappointed no matter what is done. You delay for content someone hates the game, you don't have VR another person hates the game. What I'm getting at is while fans concerns are weighed into the equation, thinking that this fixes some being unhappy with something in game and calling it game breaking is a bit of a stretch.

Just give it a go, beta is at the end if this year maybe you will actually like the system but no one will know until they experience it. You can create any scenario you want but it is nothing more than an assumption at this point.
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#12
ResolutionBlaze

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If people can't play to what they have then there is a problem.

If you wanna play as Jason then play the same server for longer. It shouldn't take more than an hour or less of playtime to get to pay as Jason.

I swear I'm not half as angry as I seem to be.

 

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#13
BloodOnTheRocks

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If people can't play to what they have then there is a problem.
If you wanna play as Jason then play the same server for longer. It shouldn't take more than an hour or less of playtime to get to pay as Jason.


People dont play what they have. They play what they paid money to play as. Entitled? Sure. A consumer pays money for a product. If the product is "YES.....you can play as Jason" but what the consumer gets is "tonight you MIGHT get to play as Jason" you get really mad consumers.

#14
ResolutionBlaze

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People dont play what they have. They play what they paid money to play as. Entitled? Sure. A consumer pays money for a product. If the product is "YES.....you can play as Jason" but what the consumer gets is "tonight you MIGHT get to play as Jason" you get really mad consumers.

But you CAN play as Jason.

The problem is "I want to play Jason whenever I want"

I mean, I get it. Random isn't my favorite choice either but if they handle it right then it won't matter.

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#15
FreakyFrank1

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Look even if the devs considered your suggestion,there's still gonna be rage quiting or trolling even if we gave more choice to characters selection. (even tough there's already quite some choices you can do already with the option of being able to choose a character appearances)

 

Jpop said it,it wont fix the problem weither it reduce it or not.

 

In the end,there's always someone out there who will not be satisfied.

 

If the devs want to do things their way,then so be it,let them be.

 

 

As for the other members of the forums,i would suggest to just stop trying to explain to that guy,he will just keep on insisting and this thread will go on and on and on.


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#16
GunMedia_Ben

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We hear you and know that there's a lot of people that want to be Jason and a lot that don't want to be Jason. We will have more news on a system we believe is going to work well for as many people as possible. It's impossible to please everyone, but we hope to get as many positive aspects in place overall :).


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#17
BloodOnTheRocks

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Look even if the devs considered your suggestion,there's still gonna be rage quiting or trolling even if we gave more choice to characters selection. (even tough there's already quite some choices you can do already with the option of being able to choose a character appearances)
 
Jpop said it,it wont fix the problem weither it reduce it or not.
 
In the end,there's always someone out there who will not be satisfied.
 
If the devs want to do things their way,then so be it,let them be.
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=Jx2bHvlwkvM
 
As for the other members of the forums,i would suggest to just stop trying to explain to that guy,he will just keep on insisting and this thread will go on and on and on.


Insisting, or responding with reasons why I feel so confident that this will happen? Like I said.....I would lay money that a queue for Jason will eventually be inplemented once theres too much feedback to ignore. Like I said......the people on this forum are not the general public. The people on this forum have expected a random Jason system as they kept up with development. For those who buy the game at release this is going to be a very unpleasant surprise and will create a host of issues for everyone.

Im not trolling. Im not prone to spending hours belaboring a point. Its just that I absolutely love what I see so far. I see a ton of potential and this ONE thing is going to have such an impact that I really truly believe it can screw things up for the players all the way around and Im just like wait.....WHY would it be so difficult to just give people the choice??? This thing could be GREAT. It already is. I have the virtual cabin. I see how amazing it is. The last thing I or any of you want is people turning into trolls and just not caring because theyre disappointed in which role they were assigned and it just ruins it for everyone. I dont want counselors on my team logging off or just saying oh well boo hoo I didnt get Jason this round so Im just gonna wait by this door and make noise so he finds me cause the door kill is hilarious. No....if Im playing counselor I want the rest of the group to be looking for car parts or phone parts or scheming on how we get out of this thing. Not ragequitting or giving up. Its so obvious to me that if the system is random this IS what will happen. Ive played tooooooo many games for too long to not be certain of it.

Ive said before that the transition would be jarring. Its going to completely break immersion. One minute Im a counselor and now all the sudden Im Jason and have to totally switch mindsets and get devious and mean. No.....if Im feeling devious and mean then thats where my head is.

At the end of the day I could not be more sure that this will hurt the reputation of the game and impact sales. It will negatively affect the experience of the gamers that dont even care which side they play as. It will be one of the biggest things that people talk about when the game comes out. I cannot tell you how many Paladins were running around on my server in DAoC. But I can tell you that if the devs woulda said no no.....we have enough Paladins...you cant play yours tonight because half the server is on there.....everyone woulda got ticked off and unsubbed. Because you cant expect to be able to force the choice on most players and have them be happy about it. You guys here are OK with it. This is the very small core support group. That sentiment will not apply when the game goes live.

#18
BloodOnTheRocks

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Let me put it like this - if the system is random, I do not know what kind of experience I will have when I load up the game. If I had a bad day at work, Im not feeling meek and scared and counselor-ey. I wanna get in someone's face and brutalize them. If I play GTA or Sniper Elite III, I know what kind of experience I am going to have. I'm fired up. I wanna get in there and spill some blood. How can I take that mindset into F13 when it seems like most of the time I'll end up playing as a counselor when that's the exact opposite of what I want to do? If someone is in the mood to play as a counselor, hey, awesome. I'm sure I'll feel like it too. But doing it randomly just doesnt make sense for soooo many reasons.



#19
Body Boy

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If the punishment for rage quitting is a less likely chance to be Jason, then they'll smarten up real fast. :)


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#20
The Arrogant Man

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Insisting, or responding with reasons why I feel so confident that this will happen? Like I said.....I would lay money that a queue for Jason will eventually be inplemented once theres too much feedback to ignore. Like I said......the people on this forum are not the general public. The people on this forum have expected a random Jason system as they kept up with development. For those who buy the game at release this is going to be a very unpleasant surprise and will create a host of issues for everyone.

 

And trolls aren't the general public either. Most people will figure it out pretty quick. It's also not going to be a suprise. The game is VERY CLEAR that it's a two team game. Between that and the singleplayer Bot mode, the general audience will be JUST FINE.

 

 

Im not trolling. Im not prone to spending hours belaboring a point. Its just that I absolutely love what I see so far. I see a ton of potential and this ONE thing is going to have such an impact that I really truly believe it can screw things up for the players all the way around and Im just like wait.....WHY would it be so difficult to just give people the choice??? This thing could be GREAT. It already is. I have the virtual cabin. I see how amazing it is. The last thing I or any of you want is people turning into trolls and just not caring because theyre disappointed in which role they were assigned and it just ruins it for everyone. I dont want counselors on my team logging off or just saying oh well boo hoo I didnt get Jason this round so Im just gonna wait by this door and make noise so he finds me cause the door kill is hilarious. No....if Im playing counselor I want the rest of the group to be looking for car parts or phone parts or scheming on how we get out of this thing. Not ragequitting or giving up. Its so obvious to me that if the system is random this IS what will happen. Ive played tooooooo many games for too long to not be certain of it.

 

Well I don't think your trolling, I just disagree with you. I understand your concern, but I think it's misplaced. Why not let people just choose? Have you played Dead By Daylight? You might be okay with waiting forever to find a game, but that's not most people. That's not the "general" audience. Most people would rather get in and play. Once again I'll say that trolls are the minority, and you're gonna have to deal with them anyway.

 

Ive said before that the transition would be jarring. Its going to completely break immersion. One minute Im a counselor and now all the sudden Im Jason and have to totally switch mindsets and get devious and mean. No.....if Im feeling devious and mean then thats where my head is.

 

I don't think you understand how the selection works. You decide if you want to play Jason. It is then decided randomly between people who said they want to be Jason that round. Most people, and I know there will be exceptions, are going to just play the round, and try again.

 

At the end of the day I could not be more sure that this will hurt the reputation of the game and impact sales. It will negatively affect the experience of the gamers that dont even care which side they play as. It will be one of the biggest things that people talk about when the game comes out. I cannot tell you how many Paladins were running around on my server in DAoC. But I can tell you that if the devs woulda said no no.....we have enough Paladins...you cant play yours tonight because half the server is on there.....everyone woulda got ticked off and unsubbed. Because you cant expect to be able to force the choice on most players and have them be happy about it. You guys here are OK with it. This is the very small core support group. That sentiment will not apply when the game goes live.

 

I think your fears are misplaced. Also, your comparison is beyond poor. There can ONLY be one Jason every round. Literally everyone will understand that much.

Listen, I'm not arguing to defend the devs here. I'm arguing because I legitimately don't like your idea. I legitimately like what the devs have proposed.


 Men called him Thu, and as a god*

in after days beneath his rod

bewildered bowed to him, and made

his ghastly temples in the shade.

Not yet by Men enthralled adored,

now was he Morgoth's mightiest lord,

Master of Wolves, whose shivering howl

for ever echoed in the hills, and foul

enchantments and dark sigaldry

did weave and wield. In glamoury

that necromancer held his hosts

of phantoms and of wandering ghosts,

of misbegotten or spell-wronged

monsters that about him thronged,

working his bidding dark and vile:

the werewolves of the Wizard's Isle.





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