Cokeyskunk

Escapees should have first chance at coming back as Jarvis

33 posts in this topic

I have seen several games where half the players know what they're doing and half just . . . don't. In these games, the good ones work together to call the cops or get the 4-seater started and escape. Then they watch as the ones who aren't so good get systematically hunted down one by one. 

If there are just a few players left, and one person calls Tommy Jarvis -- as it stands, it's randomly selected amongst the dead and escaped who will return as Jarvis. And many times, I see the great players have to watch as one of the lousy players who got killed off early is selected to be Jarvis.

It's a shame, because I've seen MANY matches where a great player can use Jarvis to his full advantage and really be a thorn in Jason's side for his kill count. It just seems fair that if you were good enough to escape (or among them), then you and your fellow escapees get first crack at being Jarvis. If there are no escapees, then he is randomly picked amongst the dead.

Shouldn't this be more of a reward for a job well done? I for one would love for a great player to come back as Jarvis to help me out -- rather than an inept 9-year-old who died in the first minute of gameplay. I think offering Jarvis first to escapees would help with that. 

-- Skunk

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I like the idea. The only problem is if no on escapes and there are 5 people dead will Tommy spawn from the dead people instead of waiting for someone to escape?

 

I know once 2 people die, Tommy will usually spawn one of those 2. What it makes the highest level if the dead and escaped counslers spawn as tommy? This way the most experienced player that dies or escapes will end up being Jarvis.

 

Great idea though.

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15 minutes ago, ZiG ZaG said:

I like the idea. The only problem is if no on escapes and there are 5 people dead will Tommy spawn from the dead people instead of waiting for someone to escape?

Of course. Waiting on someone to escape when there are already dead people not playing is silly. The main system of assigning Jarvis would still stand -- assuming he's called early in the game before there are two deaths. If there are two killed after he is called, one of them is selected. HOWEVER, if one is killed and one escapes, the escapee is AUTOMATICALLY assigned Jarvis. If there are multiple escapees and one dead, only the escapees would be considered for Jarvis when he is called.

28 minutes ago, ZiG ZaG said:

I know once 2 people die, Tommy will usually spawn one of those 2. What it makes the highest level if the dead and escaped counslers spawn as tommy? This way the most experienced player that dies or escapes will end up being Jarvis.

Eh, I don't dig that idea so much. If they do that, that means the lower level players -- even those who are naturally good players even early on -- will never get a chance to play as Jarvis. I don't think it should be a reward for doing well in ALL games, I think it should be a reward for doing well in the one you're currently playing. That way, everyone actually gets a chance, but the players who really work at it get a much better chance.

31 minutes ago, ZiG ZaG said:

Great idea though.

:D

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What if in Quickplay, Tommy is spawned by a completely new player joining the match. As it stands when someone comes back as Tommy they had the advantage of knowing where everyone and everything is because they were watching some players screens as they were dead. When in reality Tommy is an individual who you called and just said Jason was murdering people at the camp so he wouldn't know you dropped the battery by the car before you died unless someone with a walkie told him so. 
 

I know, I know people will hate that idea but it is just simply a thought.

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I think if any player should be getting a first chance at Tommy it should be who ever called him in the first place.

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47 minutes ago, UprightChair said:

I think if any player should be getting a first chance at Tommy it should be who ever called him in the first place.

That could easily be added. But it might not happen often, as -- of course -- you have to be alive to call Tommy, and there will likely already be killed/escaped players by that point. A negative to that idea is that counselors who find the radio could immediately call Tommy, then track down Jason to kill themselves just so they can respawn as the stronger, shotgun-toting Tommy. And that kind of sucks. 

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8 minutes ago, Cokeyskunk said:

That could easily be added. But it might not happen often, as -- of course -- you have to be alive to call Tommy, and there will likely already be killed/escaped players by that point. A negative to that idea is that counselors who find the radio could immediately call Tommy, then track down Jason to kill themselves just so they can respawn as the stronger, shotgun-toting Tommy. And that kind of sucks. 

I don't disagree with any of that.  I think leaving it alone is probably the easiest thing and maybe even the best.  The only thing I don't like about it going to escapees over the dead is if you choose to escape in 2 minutes either because a terrible Jason, extremely fortunate RNG, or some combination of the two you've earned you're reward and your xp and your big prize is you get to spectate another 18 minutes of gameplay if you want to collect your xp/cp

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13 minutes ago, UprightChair said:

I don't disagree with any of that.  I think leaving it alone is probably the easiest thing and maybe even the best. 

I have to respectfully disagree with that. I've observed many a game where a bangup player makes a record-time escape and wants to come back as Jarvis to help save everyone else. But there's another poozer who ran into Jason in the first 90 seconds and tried to attack him with a pipe wrench and got ventilated. Everyone is praying the hero will come back and save them as Jarvis.

. . . and who do they get? The poozer. THAT is not great gameplay. THAT is not for the best.

16 minutes ago, UprightChair said:

The only thing I don't like about it going to escapees over the dead is if you choose to escape in 2 minutes either because a terrible Jason, extremely fortunate RNG, or some combination of the two you've earned you're reward and your xp and your big prize is you get to spectate another 18 minutes of gameplay if you want to collect your xp/cp

Sorry, I don't follow.

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16 minutes ago, Cokeyskunk said: I have to respectfully disagree with that. I've observed many a game where a bangup player makes a record-time escape and wants to come back as Jarvis to help save everyone else. But there's another poozer who ran into Jason in the first 90 seconds and tried to attack him with a pipe wrench and got ventilated. Everyone is praying the hero will come back and save them as Jarvis.

. . . and who do they get? The poozer. THAT is not great gameplay. THAT is not for the best.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that a 101 can and will play with a 1.  It's just how the game is setup and that player who may suck and just got killed 60 seconds into the game shouldn't have there chances at being Tommy Jarvis completely negated because a more experienced player was able to escape or survive longer then they were.  That also does not make for great game play or a fair atmosphere.  This game has no ranked play etc it is a casual game despite its "competitive" nature. 

As for the part you didn't follow that's my bad and probably better left for another topic.

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I noticed it's always the 2nd person that dies gets selected as Tommy.

It sucks when you get spawned killed at the start from an unlucky spawn.

Then you watch a bad player get killed that comes back as Tommy.

They go do something while in spectate mode and don't know they spawned back as Tommy for 5 to 10 minutes.

Then they die again or just try to quickly escape without helping anybody.

Your stuck for 20 loooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggg minutes watching everybody.

Make Tommy the player that called him or the first person that died.

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10 minutes ago, UprightChair said:

that player who may suck and just got killed 60 seconds into the game shouldn't have there chances at being Tommy Jarvis completely negated because a more experienced player was able to escape or survive longer then they were. 

But that's the beauty of it -- it ISN'T! It would only be negated if every game they played, two people escaped before they do. And even if that does happen to noobs right off the bat, that would give them an incredible goal to strive for -- to be able to escape and finally be eligible to become TOMMY JARVIS! Right now, frankly, it's just too damn easy. "Oh, you died? Hey, good on ya! You might be Tommy!"

I really think Jarvis should be held in higher regard than that. He's a badass, AND the only one who can put Jason down. I definitely think he should be a reward for those who earned it. It just really sucks to see great players ignored by random selection.

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7 minutes ago, GhostWolfViking said:

Make Tommy the player that called him or the first person that died.

My friend, that would only make two things happen:

  1. Everyone scrambling from the start to find the radio to be the first to call Tommy, then try to get themselves killed.
  2. Everyone scrambling from the start to be the first one to die.

In both of those scenarios, you're rewarding those who TRY TO INSTANTLY DIE. In mine -- those who escape get selected to be Jarvis first -- you're rewarding those who put the effort forward to PLAY THE GAME WELL. 

I honestly think it's a no-brainer.

(Oops. I probably should have added this to the one above, bvut I can't figure out how to delete my last post!)

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@Cokeyskunk

When I wait 5 to 10 minutes for a lobby to start and I spawn right to my death, that sucks. We have all had that happen.

We all know the Tommy system is not going to change. I just hate being the first one to die with no chance in hell at respawning as Tommy.

Every match I play 1 person gets spawn killed. The 2nd player dies then gets Tommy and goes "AFK". That is not fun to watch for 20 minutes.

Lobbies are already filled with players that have no clue how to play. They never read the HOW TO PLAY section. Never help with objectives.

They loot everything and hide under a bed or go die in the woods. Then they spawn back as Tommy repeat that until they die again.

I would like it always to be random. Not just the 2nd guy that dies. That has been my experience.

I have changed my character to Tiffany and avoid spawn deaths now. I'm 101. I just loot for Pamela tapes now.

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Selection is randomly selected at this time and will remain that way for now. If someone gets killed quickly, they should have a chance to get back in just the same as someone that escapes. 

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52 minutes ago, GunMedia_Ben said:

Selection is randomly selected at this time and will remain that way for now. If someone gets killed quickly, they should have a chance to get back in just the same as someone that escapes. 

 

@GunMedia_Ben -- why? The escapee (most likely) put forth maximum effort to achieve the escape. Yes, there are some who just unfortunately die early, but that's not the case the majority of the time.

As a hypothetical: if a guy is working his tail off to escape while another guy is just running in circles and not taking the game seriously, why should that guy deserve to return as Tommy exactly as much as the guy doing his best? Remember, I'm not suggesting Tommy be taken away from those who simply died. I'm suggesting those who took the time to escape be rewarded by being given first consideration. Those who were killed quickly DO have a chance to get back in, so long as at least two players have been killed and no one has yet escaped.

Tommy is a BADASS. He should be earned. Not simply awarded by chance. Let escapees have the first crack at him, give him a Sense ability to find counselors, and give him more XP for each counselor saved at the end of each match. That way, you're rewarding those for their hard work. You're letting THEM become the hero. 

When you just give it randomly to anyone who fails OR succeeds, it just completely diminishes the character. 

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@Cokeyskunk when Admins or Devs answer your questions, don't complain or try to make your point more. He made his statement and it is valid. The ones who die should have the same chance to come back as those who lived. There are tons of people who play this game, hell some people never escape because they are new or just not that good. They should still be able to play Tommy no matter their skill that match or any match because someone who is really that good and can escape that quickly should instead help others while they are alive if they want to help. If your focus was on getting an amazing early escape that was your choice.

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12 minutes ago, Cokeyskunk said:

When you just give it randomly to anyone who fails OR succeeds, it just completely diminishes the character. 

Remember, this is just a game...

I understand your thoughts here, but I don't agree. If I get spawn killed then I would much rather get a chance at playing Tommy than sit around for the next 19 minutes doing nothing.

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29 minutes ago, PsychBam said:

@Cokeyskunk when Admins or Devs answer your questions, don't complain or try to make your point more. He made his statement and it is valid. The ones who die should have the same chance to come back as those who lived.

I totally disagree. This whole board is here to hear our opinions, even if it differs from the game developers'. It is to give us a voice. To tell us we're not allowed to troll or harass is totally valid. But to tell us we're not allowed to engage in a debate because a Dev or Admin has spoken, that just defeats the purpose entirely, doesn't it?  Debates are meant to show others different aspects of ideas not previously considered. I certainly didn't "complain," but yes -- of course I tried to reinforce my point. 

If this forum is meant to be a "Devs and Admins opinions are final, and there will be no further engaging once they have spoken" atmosphere, then I won't be posting much longer. If these posts and debates are productive and can help to make the product more cohesive and solid, then the forums have done their job. Saying, "I agree with the dev, so don't post about it anymore" doesn't help anyone.

I can see you disagree with me, but that doesn't make your point any more valid than mine. I made strong, logical points and asked questions to better understand. Please don't discourage others from doing so.

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I am not discouraging you from making strong/valid points as you so did. That was not my intention. You in fact started a topic and got people discussing the subject which is fantastic and some supported you and some didn't. I've started topics and just got absolutely destroyed by people that didn't agree with me, sometimes it happens.


Most topics that get posted on here get no answer or reply ever from Devs or Admins. They took the time to read the post and perhaps counter arguments that were stated, so your opinion was heard. The topic was debated. I'm just saying you need to respect that fact that a small operation created this game and takes the time to even read what you write.
I never said my point was more valid that yours because it is not, I'm simply stating that when they take the time to not only read but to post, your main task to be heard was accomplished.

It is also interesting that you quote just what you want and then say that "Saying, "I agree with the dev, so don't post about it anymore" doesn't help anyone". When I too made my own strong and valid points, but that is unimportant.

59 minutes ago, Cokeyskunk said:

But WHY?? The escapee (most likely) put forth maximum effort to achieve the escape. Yes, there are some who just unfortunately die early, but that's not the case the majority of the time.

As a hypothetical: if a guy is working his tail off to escape while another guy is just running in circles and not taking the game seriously, why should that guy deserve to return as Tommy as much as the guy doing his best? Tommy is a BADASS. He should be earned. Not simply awarded by chance. Let escapees have the first crack at him, give him a Sense ability to find counselors, and give him more XP for each counselor saved at the end of each match. That way, you're rewarding those for their hard work. You're letting THEM become the hero. 

When you just give it randomly to anyone who fails OR succeeds, it just completely diminishes the character. 

The bold instances are prime examples of complaining/whining.

Was never trying to attack you, just I see the devs and admins get basically what I'll call "keyboard yelled" at on here all the time and that's not discussion to further improve the game. The discussion happens between the community and the people in charge read those discussions and step in and give answers. I don't always agree with them but that's like yelling at the gas station to lower their prices, it's just going to get you nowhere.

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2 minutes ago, PsychBam said:

It is also interesting that you quote just what you want and then say that "Saying, "I agree with the dev, so don't post about it anymore" doesn't help anyone". When I too made my own strong and valid points, but that is unimportant.

The bold instances are prime examples of complaining/whining.

Of course I did. Just as I have done now. Everyone here does it. If we addressed every sentence, these things would go on forever, so we quote the sections for which we have a rebuttal. It's to condense and get through the debate more quickly. But yes, your logical points are indeed acknowledged.

And as far as "complaining/whining" goes, you did have a point. I hope you also saw that I edited my original post a bit to be less emotional and more logical. 

However, I -- along with everyone else here -- will continue to debate points with both Devs and Admins in order to reach an understanding. My primary point was it was inappropriate to tell someone not to do so.

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So basically your saying players that have little to no experience shouldn't get the same chances as players who have been around since launch?  I don't think so, do you realize that the only way new players are going to get better are by, i don't know, what was it?...Oh yes PLAYING. Experience is the best teacher, and you are trying to take that away from them just because you don't like it.  As many have stated, this is a competitive nature game, not a competitive play game, there are no rankings, there are no "jumping for top tier", its just basic survival.  So if you don't like new players playing as Tommy, get over yourself, they paid for the game just as you did, let the play even if they are "not good" enough for your standards.

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1 hour ago, lazerus_86 said:

So basically your saying players that have little to no experience shouldn't get the same chances as players who have been around since launch?  I don't think so, do you realize that the only way new players are going to get better are by, i don't know, what was it?...Oh yes PLAYING. Experience is the best teacher, and you are trying to take that away from them just because you don't like it.  As many have stated, this is a competitive nature game, not a competitive play game, there are no rankings, there are no "jumping for top tier", its just basic survival.  So if you don't like new players playing as Tommy, get over yourself, they paid for the game just as you did, let the play even if they are "not good" enough for your standards.

I think you're confused here. At what point did I ever say that I suggest we take Tommy away from the new players?

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1 hour ago, Cokeyskunk said:

I think you're confused here. At what point did I ever say that I suggest we take Tommy away from the new players?

That is the entire thrust of your OP. To sum it up...

8 hours ago, Cokeyskunk said:

Shouldn't this be more of a reward for a job well done? I for one would love for a great player to come back as Jarvis to help me out -- rather than an inept 9-year-old who died in the first minute of gameplay. I think offering Jarvis first to escapees would help with that. 

-- Skunk

To dumb it down Barney style. To give escapee's (AKA "Good players") Tommy over players who die, you're making it more likely that players more likely to die (new players/unlucky players/inept players) don't get to be him, thus "taking him away" from them. 

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3 hours ago, Risinggrave said:

That is the entire thrust of your OP. To sum it up...

To dumb it down Barney style. To give escapee's (AKA "Good players") Tommy over players who die, you're making it more likely that players more likely to die (new players/unlucky players/inept players) don't get to be him, thus "taking him away" from them. 

The only thing that would be "taken away" would be a participation trophy.

Should people not have incentives to do better? Should there not be rewards? Even small ones?? 

Never once did I say "only escapees should get Tommy."

I suggested that escapees get priority in recognition of their accomplishment. That is not taking away others' opportunities. It is creating incentive to do well in the game.

This idea is not greatly different from what is already in place. If two people die, one comes back as Jarvis. The only exception is if one person is able to escape BEFORE Tommy is called or before two people have died. Doesn't an accomplishment like that deserve something?? It certainly doesn't happen every game. Where is the detriment in that reward?

I'm unsure where the bitterness stems from in the suggestion. How is this a bad thing at all? Just like always, everyone has an equal chance to become Tommy. Your chances just go up if you escape. That's BAD?!

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