ZiG ZaG

Why I am the best Vanessa!!!

46 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, 1st2Die said:

Just because people don't use LaChappa doesn't make him underrated. LaChappa is really only good for his intelligence and stealth but he's essentially a weaker Deborah so why not just use Deborah who also has slightly better stamina, composure and speed but is also just as intelligent as him? LaChappa is essentially the counselor to use if you want a harder time to survive and I rarely see him used even now. There isn't anything underrated concerning him, he's perceived the correct way by the community. 

Huh?  A character's popularity is exactly what determines if they are underrated.  The categories you listed has Deb only 1 point higher, where Eric has 2 points over her in Luck & Strength- sooooo technically Deb is weaker.   :P 

All joking aside, Eric & Deb may have the same intelligence, but we all know Eric has a quicker and easier repair QTE.  Is it a huge difference?  No.  But nonetheless it is his best attribute, and is taken for granted because of the whole "Eric is a poor man's Deborah" misconception.  To avoid any further debate, allow me to leave it at this and you can have the last say on the matter:  "In my opinion, Eric is currently underrated."     

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1 hour ago, ZiG ZaG said:

Ive killed Jason over 500 times legitimately. Vanessa is hands down the best sweater girl. But the way I run the strategy, it doesnt matter what girl I am. I barely get to see him and when I do, I run him into a group of people ready to jump him.  I wait for tommy and the mask to be off  and then go into the house with tommy. Jason 90 percent of the time will come to his own house, Put a traps infront of the door, then walk in and die.

This is exactly why i say killing him is too easy.

Doesn't that get boring?

Why dont you play randoms an get that actual "will i survive?" feel again. Your guna burn yourself out dude.

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2 hours ago, Ker Juice said:

Huh?  A character's popularity is exactly what determines if they are underrated.  The categories you listed has Deb only 1 point higher, where Eric has 2 points over her in Luck & Strength- sooooo technically Deb is weaker.   :P 

All joking aside, Eric & Deb may have the same intelligence, but we all know Eric has a quicker and easier repair QTE.  Is it a huge difference?  No.  But nonetheless it is his best attribute, and is taken for granted because of the whole "Eric is a poor man's Deborah" misconception.  To avoid any further debate, allow me to leave it at this and you can have the last say on the matter:  "In my opinion, Eric is currently underrated."     

By definition, underrate means to think of (someone or something) as being lower in ability, influence, or value than that person or thing actually is (merriam-webster.com). What I am saying is that LaChappa doesn't fit this definition and I explained why. I like what you did there with "weaker". Good one.

I can't recall noticing any differences in terms of that but for the sake of argument, let's say you're correct, doesn't that say quite a lot about his value if his best attribute is that his skill check is only slightly easier than what is already a ridiculously easy skill check for Deborah? I don't believe it's taken for granted, it's just that (if it is easier) it's not worth it because it's already really easy to fix things with Deborah. Deborah reduces Erics value due to the fact that she's able to do everything he can in all the areas that really matter and she's better than him in all the areas that are weaknesses for him. I'm not one to just jump on a bandwagon but the quote, "Eric is a poor man's Deborah" is correct; it's not a matter of opinion but fact in that his stats clearly shows him to be an inferior counselor to Deborah. I'm not saying you can't possibly survive with him or that in the right hands and right group, he can't be of value, but the stats point to him just not being a good choice when considering the alternatives.  

I assumed it was your opinion but I've never felt that a persons opinion is free from a friendly discussion if objective evidence to the contrary exists and to be honest, I enjoy a good debate as long as both parties are respectful of each other. I'll just leave it at that.

 

 

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congratz on the killz mayn!! ive never been killed as jason thanks to my combat stance. ive been juked out of the exit a couple of time tho :( 

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2 hours ago, B0bZomb1e said:

This is exactly why i say killing him is too easy.

Doesn't that get boring?

Why dont you play randoms an get that actual "will i survive?" feel again. Your guna burn yourself out dude.

Honestly man, Escaping is way to easy. Before I started killing Jason, I would just survive until the time ran out. I can fight jason and run from him for 20 minutes, no problem.

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Based purely on the thread title, I gotta agree with my friend here:

tumblr_ly7cmgBkqf1r70odjo1_1280.gif.aa582e2503d93e4b7a1eb244070fb874.gif

I'm guessing most Jason players have no idea how to manage the maps or fall victim to the same tricks over and over if you have a "system" at work.  Looks like you need better competition.

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8 hours ago, ZiG ZaG said:

Honestly man, Escaping is way to easy. Before I started killing Jason, I would just survive until the time ran out. I can fight jason and run from him for 20 minutes, no problem.

:::Yawn:::

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15 hours ago, 1st2Die said:

Deborah reduces Erics value due to the fact that she's able to do everything he can in all the areas that really matter and she's better than him in all the areas that are weaknesses for him. I'm not one to just jump on a bandwagon but the quote, "Eric is a poor man's Deborah" is correct; it's not a matter of opinion but fact in that his stats clearly shows him to be an inferior counselor to Deborah.

The main reason to run a counselor with Repair above 2 is to repair in Jason's face, typically in a group setting, esp. at the phone box. Higher weapon durability and longer stun duration gives LaChappa the edge over Deb in a group setting unless the team has an insufficient number of trustworthy female counselors for sweater use. Your assertion that it's an actual fact that Deb is better than LaChappa is... incorrect.

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On September 8, 2017 at 0:07 PM, 1st2Die said:

I'd have to agree with what was suggested to you. I enjoy playing as different counselors but even I wouldn't like being forced to play as someone I didn't want to. Imagine the amount of people that would either leave games or not play at all because they couldn't play as the counselor that they wanted to play as.

 

LOL the whole point though is that it would be a lobby that you would have to CHOOSE to join. You jump in and it just randomizes all the crap for you. Everyone there would be there of their own volition. There's no forcing anything. 

 

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11 hours ago, konamijudge said:

The main reason to run a counselor with Repair above 2 is to repair in Jason's face, typically in a group setting, esp. at the phone box. Higher weapon durability and longer stun duration gives LaChappa the edge over Deb in a group setting unless the team has an insufficient number of trustworthy female counselors for sweater use. Your assertion that it's an actual fact that Deb is better than LaChappa is... incorrect.

Let me dissect your response sentence by sentence.

"The main reason to run a counselor with Repair above 2 is to repair in Jason's face, typically in a group setting, esp. at the phone box."

Excuse me but you're really reaching with your argument and I think most people will agree with what I'm about to say. Deborah can easily fix things right in Jasons face (I've done it plenty of times with AJ and Deborah). If there is any difference between Deborah and Eric, it's not a big one; the person I was initially debating with understood this as well.

"Higher weapon durability and longer stun duration gives LaChappa the edge over Deb in a group setting unless the team has an insufficient number of trustworthy female counselors for sweater use."

Luck has nothing to do with stun duration and LaChappa's luck, though higher than Deborah, is mediocre. Let me explain, LaChappa's poor composure, lack of speed and lack of stamina makes what is already a mediocre luck rating almost useless when trying to stun and escape Jason. I do agree that in a group setting when trying to kill Jason, LaChappa will most likely get one or maybe two more swings with a bat than Deborah and more swings than the hard hitters such as Adam and Buggzy (due to their lower luck) but Adam and Buggzy are more ideal due to their strength; they have a much easier time getting his mask off. I don't say this to take anything away from him in this comparison but when trying to kill Jason, high strength is ideal. When trying to waste time and stun Jason repeatedly, high luck and speed or just speed is ideal; Eric cannot do neither one of these things well. Erics stats reflects a stealth/repair character, nothing more. You're trying to create value in an area that there is none due to the fact that his other stats handicap that value (as small as a 5 rating may be). You'll notice that in the conversation you replied to, the debate was never on anything but repair; it wasn't because we forgot that Eric has a luck stat higher than Deborah. It's because it's obvious that a mediocre luck stat on a slow running, low recovering, low strength and low composure counselor is of very little value.

"Your assertion that it's an actual fact that Deborah is better than LaChappa is...incorrect."

Actually it is correct, you're just reaching for anything that can be of value in places where there is none and saying that means Deborah isn't better. This isn't coming from a person that's trying to put down a character design, I'm simply explaining the stats and the way people use these stats to play effectively. Why else do you think people prefer Deborah over Eric? There isn't some hidden agenda to hate the character. Eric and Deborah fill the same role but Deborah can perform that role just as effectively while being better in stats needed to escape.

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On 9/8/2017 at 2:53 AM, Absurd Boy said:

I'm starting to think that Vanessa is actually pretty underrated. Sure she's loud, but she runs fast as heck and her stamina is great. Maybe use some perks or something.... man... I should start using her more.. she's not really bad now that I think of it.

She is the best.

Chad and Deborah follow closely behind her.  

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On 9/8/2017 at 11:59 AM, ZiG ZaG said:

Ive killed Jason over 500 times legitimately. 

Calling bullshit. I only received my 1,000 match as a counselor achievement and I play a lot. Your number is way too inflated to be "legit". 

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44 minutes ago, Risinggrave said:

Calling bullshit. I only received my 1,000 match as a counselor achievement and I play a lot. Your number is way too inflated to be "legit". 

But he is the self proclaimed best Vanessa! Probably ever! Gosh! Can't you read?! Lol :rolleyes:

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45 minutes ago, pro5pt0 said:

But he is the self proclaimed best Vanessa! Probably ever! Gosh! Can't you read?! Lol :rolleyes:

Well damnit. I didn't realize he was the best ever. I'd better retract my comment. I'm also going to have to stop playing because I'll never, ever live up to his self appointed standard. 

 

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9 hours ago, 1st2Die said:

"Deborah can easily fix things right in Jasons face (I've done it plenty of times with AJ and Deborah). If there is any difference between Deborah and Eric, it's not a big one; the person I was initially debating with understood this as well."

"Luck has nothing to do with stun duration."

"it's obvious that a mediocre luck stat on a slow running, low recovering, low strength and low composure counselor is of very little value. you're just reaching for anything that can be of value in places where there is none and saying that means Deborah isn't better."

I also don't think there is a difference in LaChappa and Deb's Repair speed. The sentence I said about 2 Repair was more of a subtle hint about how Deb and LaChappa should both be played in a group that I used to set up the comparison of their value in a group in the following sentence.

Chad has such long stuns compared with AJ that Luck having no effect on stun duration seems unlikely. Tommy seems to have longer stuns than Buggzy, too. (I'd like more clinical testing on this with Chad vs. LaChappa and Jenny vs. Deborah, though.) LaChappa has more Strength than Deborah regardless, and that definitely seems to affect stun duration. The stun duration difference can be significant in particular if LaChappa/Deb gets a stun at the phone box or car since you want more phone call progress or more car start-up/movement progress before the stun ends. (Note that I'm referring to standing stuns rather than "flattening" stuns with all this.)

Luck is more or less tied with Speed for being the most important "everybody staying alive" stat in group play. Adam and Deb do have more Speed than LaChappa, though they don't have sufficient Speed to dodge a properly executed Part 3 Shift-swing that takes away 1/4 of a counselor's health bar even with 20% Thick Skinned, meaning if you face a really strong Jason player, you'll have to rely mostly on blocking w/ counterattacking in order to not get your health chunked on every Shift with all 3 of these counselors. The Luck difference for more Wrench and Machete durability matters a lot here and for grab rescuing, especially when you have to stay at an objective for an extended period of time. Luck actually matters more the slower you are.

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6 hours ago, Risinggrave said:

Calling bullshit. I only received my 1,000 match as a counselor achievement and I play a lot. Your number is way too inflated to be "legit". 

Been had that achievement. I am level 101. Ive been strictly killing Jason's since I was level 40. Dont believe me. Play me on xbox. TCU ZiG ZaG.   Go look at my clips as well. Youll see a small percentage of them.

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2 hours ago, konamijudge said:

I also don't think there is a difference in LaChappa and Deb's Repair speed. The sentence I said about 2 Repair was more of a subtle hint about how Deb and LaChappa should both be played in a group that I used to set up the comparison of their value in a group in the following sentence.

Chad has such long stuns compared with AJ that Luck having no effect on stun duration seems unlikely. Tommy seems to have longer stuns than Buggzy, too. (I'd like more clinical testing on this with Chad vs. LaChappa and Jenny vs. Deborah, though.) LaChappa has more Strength than Deborah regardless, and that definitely seems to affect stun duration. The stun duration difference can be significant in particular if LaChappa/Deb gets a stun at the phone box or car since you want more phone call progress or more car start-up/movement progress before the stun ends. (Note that I'm referring to standing stuns rather than "flattening" stuns with all this.)

Luck is more or less tied with Speed for being the most important "everybody staying alive" stat in group play. Adam and Deb do have more Speed than LaChappa, though they don't have sufficient Speed to dodge a properly executed Part 3 Shift-swing that takes away 1/4 of a counselor's health bar even with 20% Thick Skinned, meaning if you face a really strong Jason player, you'll have to rely mostly on blocking w/ counterattacking in order to not get your health chunked on every Shift with all 3 of these counselors. The Luck difference for more Wrench and Machete durability matters a lot here and for grab rescuing, especially when you have to stay at an objective for an extended period of time. Luck actually matters more the slower you are.

I like your view on this. I can tell you are a good counselor from how you view the game. Luck helps with weapon durability and it also goes into a random stat for that game. So when I play with Vanessa, if the luck stat goes into my repair, I can repair things in 6 clicks instead of 10. If i am chad and luck goes into my stam, I would beable to run like vanessa, tommy, and bugsy. 

In the arguement on who is a better counsler, it depends how you are playing. If you are playing to kill Jason. Everyone but 2 people should be bugsy, adam or chad. Sweater runner should be vanessa, back up girl should be a girl with high repair. Back up girl works on repairing cars and phone box while everyone else jumps him.

If you are trying to escape, you obviously want more people who have repair and then a couple heavy hitters to cover the repair people.

 

On a side note, If you are Chad and carry around a flare gun or shotgun. You are useless to this game. There is no point of carrying a gun with 10 luck. Give the gun to someone else.

 

 

 

 

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At the end of the day, you have people that run from their problems (escape) and then you have people that face their problems head first (killing Jason). I prefer not to run from my problems when all the tools I need are right infront of me.

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1 hour ago, ZiG ZaG said:

Been had that achievement. I am level 101. Ive been strictly killing Jason's since I was level 40. Dont believe me. Play me on xbox. TCU ZiG ZaG.   Go look at my clips as well. Youll see a small percentage of them.

Hey, @lHeartBreakerl We may have to get a party together one of these days. 

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7 hours ago, konamijudge said:

I also don't think there is a difference in LaChappa and Deb's Repair speed. The sentence I said about 2 Repair was more of a subtle hint about how Deb and LaChappa should both be played in a group that I used to set up the comparison of their value in a group in the following sentence.

Chad has such long stuns compared with AJ that Luck having no effect on stun duration seems unlikely. Tommy seems to have longer stuns than Buggzy, too. (I'd like more clinical testing on this with Chad vs. LaChappa and Jenny vs. Deborah, though.) LaChappa has more Strength than Deborah regardless, and that definitely seems to affect stun duration. The stun duration difference can be significant in particular if LaChappa/Deb gets a stun at the phone box or car since you want more phone call progress or more car start-up/movement progress before the stun ends. (Note that I'm referring to standing stuns rather than "flattening" stuns with all this.)

Luck is more or less tied with Speed for being the most important "everybody staying alive" stat in group play. Adam and Deb do have more Speed than LaChappa, though they don't have sufficient Speed to dodge a properly executed Part 3 Shift-swing that takes away 1/4 of a counselor's health bar even with 20% Thick Skinned, meaning if you face a really strong Jason player, you'll have to rely mostly on blocking w/ counterattacking in order to not get your health chunked on every Shift with all 3 of these counselors. The Luck difference for more Wrench and Machete durability matters a lot here and for grab rescuing, especially when you have to stay at an objective for an extended period of time. Luck actually matters more the slower you are.

I misunderstood and assumed you meant something different. I personally don't see any reason why you can't have two Deborahs or even a Deborah and AJ. Both have very easy skill checks.

I have played Chad and Adam a lot and and I have never noticed any difference in stun duration. I have also read every guide I could find online including the wiki as well as Wes response to a question concerning luck and none of them said anything about luck having anything to do with stun duration. I honestly don't know where you're getting this information from.  As for strength, I also haven't noticed any difference and when looking up information on this fact, there are mixed responses which leads me to believe that if there is a difference, it's not obvious enough for the average person to notice a difference. Certainly not enough to make a difference in survival between Deborah and Eric when it comes to stun time. Nonetheless, I still don't think strength has anything to do with stun duration due to personal experience and the fact that many people also claimed to have tested and haven't noticed a difference. I could be wrong but if I am, it's obviously not a difference that's going to impact the game if it's that hard to notice.

I agree that luck is very important in keeping others alive but I just don't see a luck stat of 5 being of as much value like you do. According to the wiki, "Despite the name, luck has a fixed ratio on how many times a counselor can use a particular weapon before it breaks. The higher the luck, the more hits they can perform. For instance, if Jenny is armed with the baseball bat, she can hit Jason three times with it before breaking due to her high luck (8)." Assuming this is accurate, I assume that LaChappa (luck of 5) can get 2 swings and Deborah (luck of 3) maybe just 1. My argument is all about in what happens in practice, and in practice people are using LaChappa to fix things and get around without Jason locking in to their location, not to save anyone. In a well coordinated group, Eric's 5 luck stat isn't impressing anyone especially when other counselors make better protectors when it comes to grab rescuing due to their speed allowing them to close the distance much faster. A high luck perhaps matters if you're slow but even then, Eric isn't getting far after stuns. Eric is the easiest counselor to kill despite this value you place on luck. When picking counselors, people are looking at their personal survival and the risks they can take based on their stats. Chad and Vanessa can take risks because their other stats complement their luck, the same can't be said for LaChappa.

This debate has essentially come down to a stat you're placing a lot of value on without taking into consideration how things are in practice. If I'm going to do what you seem to be doing which is look for any stat that is higher and say "that means this counselor is not better" then I'll say yes, Eric has higher strength and luck and is thus better in those areas, so? Eric has a luck of 5 and a strength of 4, that's alright I suppose but even then, how does his other stats complement it? Is maybe getting one extra swing worth it? That's the kind of questions people ask themselves when deciding between two counselors that are used the same exact way.

For the sake of not making this long post any longer I didn't reply to Zig Zag, but you'll notice nowhere in his response did he mention Eric for doing anything other than (what's safe to assume to be) repairing.

 

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